Anarchism says there's no need for a state, that it would be better to have a society without central government. Anarchists dislike the often heavy-handed authority that government brings. Yet the dream of the stateless society is not a simple one. How can we have law and order without government? What's involved in a self-governed society, free from authority? And how could we ever peacefully transition from central governance to anarchy? John and Ken question authority with James Martel from San Francisco State University, editor of How Not To Be Governed: Readings and Interpretations from a Critical Anarchist Left. This program was recorded live at the Marsh Theater in San Francisco.